"Zimmer" Time......

[mdehners]

Sometimes I feel like the last Dinosaur most places on-line. There's none of my old friends here...then again, I started on alt-pagan and the BBS system. Even those in the last 15 yrs like Marion, Arlie, Swain and a few others are the exception.
I Know I big reason the others are gone, lack of Respect. In the early days(probably since most folks online we scholarly types of various streams)folks that had been "at it" longer were given at least "Experience Points". Today, you can be a lettered Fellow, been on a particular list/group/whatever since it's Founding and be told in rude tones that you don't know what you're talking about....without pointing out where your Info "is" incorrect. The "Democratization" of the Internet has made "101" level(at best) the standard and all equal, whether you've actually put in time, effort and whatever on a subject....or not.
Most of my lists and groups I'm one of the longest subbed to and with usually yrs of achived "blather" yet most often I get treated as a newbie. Unlike a lot of my friends, I don't take it too personally(even though it's meant to). Probably having been "Out" of both CLosets since the late 70's. Builds Callouses;>.
It doesn't mean that it doesn't get "old". Esp. since general education, at least in the US has dropped since I was in highschool. Basic cultural and literary stuff isn't taught anymore so you can't expect Critical Thinking(or Basic Education) from a lot of the folks under 40 online today. Hardly surprising that so many of us Old FOlks have de-linked from Cybergard. I do know that if I lived in a less Isolated area for both Heathenry and Culture I'd unsub the majority of mine....
Truth,
Pat

Comments

[weofodthignen]

I'm gratified you refer to me as an old-timer; I'm actually not :-) Several people who predate me greatly both in heathenry and on-line are still on-line:

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<user="puca">') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

I'm gratified you refer to me as an old-timer; I'm actually not :-) Several people who predate me greatly both in heathenry and on-line are still on-line: <user="puca"> (after a great gap and not much), Lavrans, Alaric (keeps switching between several LJs, very active on Osric's lists), Osric himself, Krei, Groa, Tiwing, Ron Branga/Boardman, Jon whatsisname who used to be in New Orleans, and Scrwtape all appreciably precede me. And of course Lorrie dragged DLP onto LJ a year or two ago. Oh and Hrappr is back in heathenry again and back on Northeast; and someone told me Pip is around again in some online venues.

Which is not to say you don't have a point. No contest from me about lousy education these days, especially in history and geography (on logic I won't claim to be a champion myself, and I'm not sure it's actually needed as much as the ability to *read* with understanding--a lot of younger folks can't spot a hypothetical, whether in writing or aurally, and fire off a reply without checking whether the point was actually covered later in the post, or in a parenthesis). And if this were not a public post I would name at least 2 people with disproportionate influence in heathenry and even seen by outsiders as spokespeople for us who are not just johnny-come-latelies but pretty badly grounded in lore and interpretation. Let alone the fact that hardly anybody is any good at the languages. But the thing is, a tribal/indigenous religion is for everyone. It's a mark that we're doing it right if we get clods as well as visionaries, fools as well as geniuses. And all ages. Some of the "newbies" are older people--many would count me as an example of that, though I have a considerable past before I found public heathenry, or even before I knew I was heathen. And the other thing is . . . older folks can be fools too. (See list above - you and I would identify some people on it as fools.) People can even lose what wisdom they had. And/or honour. I know our ancestors revered "elders," but I hope not in an entirely kneejerk fashion. After all, it was rarer then to get past 50. And then we have the topos of the unpromising youth - Campbell was right, it's quite prevalent in heroic lit. Helgi for one. I've seen a few twit newbies grow into admirable heathens, some of them even fairly learned. (To name one, Ayla knows a lot, and would probably have been of great use to the Troth.) Also . . . anybody can make a mistake. I've been called on some errors myself, by Gerd on LJ among other people and places. When I did the YouTube Blogathon a week ago, I included Fornjótr and his descendants because Noil prodded me to, and I didn't know what Kári's name signified. I got 2 comments pointing me to a heiti for "wind," one referring to Lindow. I tend to avoid modern scholars - I've been bitten too many times, and besides there is not world enough and time to read stuff by someone who can't read German, since soooo much has already been published in German that these guys think they came up with for the first time. But that's how it should work. I share my knowledge and insights - other people do too and together we have more than we could working alone. Doesn't matter whether they're men or women, older or younger, or even in academia or not (I'm disappointed by the latest crop of heathen academics, though glad we are producing one.)

I must admit I've felt disrespect myself, though I have such a high level of visibility, I tend to put it down to said inability to read (like, not realizing I am the <em>founder</em> of HT and trying to boss me on that list; not reading the definition of heathen that that list sends to everyone who signs up; the very common error of assuming I'm a noob because I'm not on the Troth lists . . . or plain old misogyny, which is quite common in heathenry and the reason I mention my academic qualifications as often as I do . . . there are males in heathenry who assume a woman can't know the lore.

Hávamál reminds us that everyone can be of some use . . . and stresses that we should keep contact with friends. I believe it also says something about everyone being able to learn something from the wise; it certainly talks about every man being susceptible to being brought low by love, and that maybe could be generalized :-) But I admit I spend over-much time with fools by its standards. It's the priestly mission, and maybe the Thorian, too.

. . . and remember, if we don't speak up, the newfangled and the unjustifiably self-important will have a clear field. Noobs won't know they are not the only authorities.

Frith,
M

[mdehners]

It just gets old.I'm more active on non-Heathen lists now and much happier for it. I guess in a way I feel the same way about Gay politics and such. I did my time and it's time to let others do it. If they fuck it up, I'mm near Expiration Date anyway;>....
Cheers,
Pat

[weofodthignen]

Yup, understood. Puca's pretty much withdrawn too. I fear it's my gyðja calling. I just think that's a pity, if so, because it means the field will continue to be dominated by the shrill, the ill-informed, and the unjustifiably arrogant. I suspect that this is a downside of ease of communication--reputations don't endure on the merits as they did of old, but far more on the squeaky wheel principle, both because it is easier to propagandize oneself and one's friends and because memories are short.

Buggerit. Do think on the specific examples tho, because I suspect in a large number of cases it's less that people are fed up than that e-groups and the parts of the blogosphere that we hang out on are "old." The fissioning of heathenry is happening even more in modes of communication these days than in groups; more and more people are swirling through a series of different groups.

And that's my political insight for this noontime.

Frith,
M

[mdehners]

I'm just glad I'm in a kindred-free zone at present since folks answering cells was happening in my last one during even Blots. I don't think I could handle the Twitter and Text Generation.....
Truth,
Pat