Gurl Puleeez!

[mdehners]

Most gay men will relate to this minor rant:
Just because we also are Emotionally and Sexually Attracted to men doesn't make us a woman with a penis! All my Adult life I've dealt with female friends who automatically think I'd take their side in their relationship arguemnts because, "You Understand. You date guys too!". Ahem. I'm ALSO a guy. A guy who likes guys like you like guys. Thing is, being a guy means you Think like one....whether or not you prefer women OR men.
Truth is, much of the time I DO sympathise with your boyfriend but am too good of a friend to say so. It's also why, when Het guys don't have a problem with Homo guys we get along great....not just because we're other guys but we hear the women's side from our Het female friends and can "translate" for them.
WHEN women are actually interested, we can explain (usually) what actually happened and not what they THOUGHT happened...as a guy sees "it".
The biggest thing I've TRIED over the yrs to get my Het female friends to Understand is that the VAST majority of times something they took personally in truth had NOTHING to do with them...it simply affected you or your plans. And Yes,Gay guys get just as Pissed off but it's because WHATEVER screwed up our plans,but we didn't take it to be more than the usual "Brain Fart". 'Course, ANY Het guy who DARED to tell his girlfriend or wife that "It's not always about you" is going to be TOAST;>.
Comedians make enough about the differences about Men and Women and sadly they're often RIGHT. A big problem is that in Modern Western Culture actually admitting that we ARE outside of Comedy is considered ill mannered....so no one really talks about it. Though sadly, I don't think it'd make much difference. One of the things I've learned in my life is that folks see things through "lenses" tinted by their Beleif Systems(which aren't just about Spirituality)and there are a lot of those out there who the the opposite gender as just like them except for Plumbing....
Cheers,
Pat

Comments

[jdack]

As a Het guy with mostly Het friends, I sometimes get worn out trying to remind them: "gay dudes are still DUDES."

[mdehners]

Unfortunately, a lot of Het women don't get that either. Back when I was still in Nursing, there were times I really had to clamp my trap tightly as so not to say that they need NOT to listen to the voices in their heads. I can't count the number of relationships my Het women friends have ended or destroyed over the yrs simply by them Mentally Masturbating the "What If's" until something like a simple spontaneous beer has been blown up to a sign of an affair/addiction/etc. And I learned very quickly being usually the only guy(other than Maintainence or Janitorial;>)to say, "He just felt like having a beer and stopped for one";>.....
Cheers,
Pat

[thedeadcat]

I like my husband's take on it all. "What? Stop for a beer? Hell no! My wife is making me food and giving me sex at home!" ;D

[mdehners]

Every night? He IS a lucky man;>....
Cheers,
Pat

[thedeadcat]

LOL! If my sex drive could do that he'd be too tired to get up in the morning!

[thedeadcat]

My parents are a living, breathing, (stupid) example of that bullshit. It's tiring.


....and now the Bewitched theme is stuck in my head. You suck. :D

[mdehners]

Luckly, no one in my family does, but Chuck's co-workers(before he Retired last Fall)did. Unfortunately for him, his Head Injury makes him tend to blurt out what he's thinking,which has made him a few enemies.
Cheers,
Pat

[thedeadcat]

I get a little bit of that, but mostly it's because I say WEIRD things, not socially observant things. (I try to keep the socially observant stuff to myself!)

[arlie]

My perspective is perhaps a little twisted. I see individuals, not gender examples, except when people are acting out their social roles. When a person is being a person - not thinking of their gender - they fit their stereotypes a lot less than when reminded ;-)

But part of that is because when I look at myself, I don't see half the things that are said to be female universals. I don't see half the male universals either. And I do see some silly relationship dynamics things occuring regardless of the gender of the participants - or gender things being read into relationship things, because of the presumed gender of the particpants.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense here. I guess what I'm saying is there are plenty of people identified with the male or female role, and I'm sure many of them are gay - but you can't take it for granted for anyone.

[mdehners]

Well, you're the 1st to admit that your world-view is a bit different than the majority of American Caucasian females of your generation;>.
Things are a bit different for those born in America after 1970. Those of us before, esp those of Caucasian ancestry had a pretty communal world view, brought forth from schooling, entertainment, sports, etc. It's one of the main reasons those Dream Interpretation books worked mostly for my generation an before; we all pretty much had the same schooling, read the same books, saw the same entertainment. Today, we're more "balkanized" which has it's + and it's -.
Cheers,
Pat

[spaceoperadiva]

I don't strongly identify with any gender, and I tend to think of gender as learned social behavior. That of course gets me into trouble with some transgender people. It's not that I don't believe that they have a strong, inborn preference for a gender other than the one they would typically be assigned. I get that and I want to be supportive of whatever choices they make about how they want to present themselves and what social roles they wish to play.

What you say about presumed or perceived gender causing people to "read" certain behaviors differently speaks very loudly to me.

I've had gay friends who purposely took on certain behaviors that seem feminized to many viewers-- very stereotypical things like hip swishing and talking in the top of their register, with a lisp, referring to themselves as "one of the girls" or as a "queen" even though they didn't cross dress. So I can see how some women can get the idea where those guys will follow the thought paradigms of "women", since they're enacting some gay version of "woman" for their audience. I don't think those guys really think like females deeply socialized to "woman" gender role though. I tend to view those guys as being exotics in terms of gender and as the gay guys who don't take on stereotypes as probably holding pretty mainstream "guy" attitudes. Mostly I'm going to try to not jump to any conclusions about your attitudes and try get to know you as a person. But some people are really strongly attached to their gender roles, and I think we have to respect that too.

Gender and sexual preference are strange bedmates. Sadly, too many people forget they're not the same thing, or as interrelated as they might appear.

[mdehners]

Other than a touch of "The Gay Accent", I don't fit the stereotype. Unfortunately, esp. folks born earlier than the 70's tend to see their cultural beleifs OF Gays AS Real and Real Gays as the exception. Like my parents. No matter how many times I point out that I (and now my Partner) are pretty "generic Gays, they'll still make comments like "well, if the other Gays were like you(two)". Cultural Beleifs trump REality.
Cheers,
Pat